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School Board Stung by Science Class Outrage

Los Alamitos Unified's plan to include a skeptical view of global warming prompts a national backlash.

It was billed as an innocuous, routine item on the Los Alamitos school board's May 10 agenda. “That’s not a story,” outgoing Superintendent Gregory Franklin assured a reporter when asked about the proposed revisions to Board Policy 213.

But after the item passed, and Patch broke the news that , a firestorm erupted. Los Alamitos became a focal point in the national debate over how to teach global climate change.

Science blogs and Patch's sister publication HuffingtonPost.com linked to the story, and school board members were soon besieged by hundreds of scathing emails and snarky blog comments from around the U.S.

By injecting politics into science lessons, Los Alamitos threatens to "out-dumb" Texas as "the laughing-stock of education," wrote Bill Allen, a former editor-in-chief for National Geographic.

Others asked: Why not teach "both sides" of the moon landing or Holocaust, since some folks doubt those were real too.

In response, district officials suggested critics were "politicizing" and misinterpreting Los Alamitos Unified's policy on teaching "controversial issues."

"We are not trying to micromanage teachers," board member Diana Hill said Saturday morning.

Board President Karen Russell, a former science teacher, said she "absolutely believes in global warming," but nevertheless thinks it's important to challenge students and teach them “another side” of the issue.

Under longstanding school district policy, a "controversial issue" is defined as any topic "on which opposing points of view have been promulgated by responsible opinion" and which is "likely to arouse both support and opposition in the community."

Last week, the school board revised the policy to require that teachers include "a balance of viewpoints" on all controversial issues and come before the board once a year to prove their lesson plans are unbiased (see the PDF accompanying this story). At the time, no parents or teachers commented on the policy change, but one parent told Patch of plans to speak out against the revision at the next meeting, on May 23.

The catalyst for the policy change was a new Los Alamitos High School Advanced Placement science class that covers global warming.

Board member Jeffrey Barke, a doctor, led the charge, saying he thought climate change was a crock and didn't want "liberal" teachers indoctrinating young minds.

His remarks made him a lightning rod for this week's backlash.

“I should’ve chosen my words better," Barke said Saturday, "but I don’t think I deserve having people question my medical license and sending me derogatory comments or personal attacks."

Barke described some of the criticism as “silly” and “offensive,” including suggestions that skepticism toward climate change is akin to denying the moon landing or the Holocaust.

“There are flaws in the data that concern global warming and I respectfully disagree that more than 90 percent of scientists believe global warming exists,” he said. “There are hundreds of reputable scientists such as Bjorn Lomborg and Ian Plimer who deny the causes and concerns of global warming.”

Actually, Lomborg thinks global warming "is real and man-made" and "will have a serious impact on humans and the environment toward the end of this century." Lomborg simply argues it would be more beneficial to focus on wiping out malaria and contaminated water supplies. But he isn't a scientist; he teaches at a business school in Denmark.

Plimer is an Australian geology professor and author whose climate change critique has been lambasted by other scientists.

It's unclear how Los Alamitos Unified's new policy will play out. If the board doesn't like the lesson plan presented by science faculty, will it dictate class content?

“Right now, we just want to see a presentation,” Russell said.

Barke said he would require teachers to present different views on whether global warming exists, whether it is caused primarily by human activity and whether its effects would be disastrous.

Incoming Superintendent Sherry Kropp sought to downplay any prospect of trouble for the new class curriculum. "The course itself is not controversial, just the global warming topic," she said Saturday.

In a written statement emailed to Patch later, she added, "We want our students to develop into complex, critical thinkers who are able to discern fact, opinion, science, etc. The board’s interest is that courses present a balanced curriculum that represents multiple perspectives of controversial issues. ... The course outline and topics for study are dictated by the College Board."

Kropp, who has been with Los Alamitos Unified since the mid-1980s and has spent the past six years as assistant superintendent, said she could recall no other instance of a class being deemed controversial under district policy.

Barke agreed that "99 percent of subjects are not controversial in the classroom--there is nothing controversial about teaching math, reading or writing," but he acknowledged the revised policy opens the door to scrutiny of other course content.

“Sex education can be a topic that we may want to have a presentation on,” he said. “But we haven’t discussed this yet. ... With the passing of this policy, we set a precedent to allow upcoming boards to also review courses as they deem necessary."

Barke said he was stunned by the number and tone of the emails he's received about his desire to have global warming lessons include a "conservative" view.

“This policy affects a minimum number of Los Alamitos students and people have become so emotional,” he said. He added that it wasn't his intent to have politics play a part in his role as board member. “I would have the same concerns if we were talking about a conservative teacher teaching purely conservative views," he said.

met00 May 20, 2011 at 02:49 pm
Ned, here are a few controversial things that are NOT taught as facts
1) The Protocols of the Elders of Zion [AP world history] 2) The usurping of the United States Presidency by the SCOTUS in 2000 [AP US History] 3) Creationism [AP Bio] Now while I believe that two out of three of these are absolute bullcrap (1, 3) these three are all controversial and would "teach the students to think". And two out of three have absolutely no evidence to support them, just like the global climate change deniers have no evidence to support them. As for the JFK reference, it should be taught in AP Physics. There the Warren Report can be reviewed so that students can see how the Senate determined that a bullet in travel along a straight line can suddenly take a hard left, ignoring all the laws in the physical universe.
Sundance May 20, 2011 at 03:19 pm
PL - If you believe the AGU summary (I don't think it is current as they rely heavily on a 2006 study) you need to show me sea level data, primarily over the last decade, which shows sea level rise is in fact rising from greater ice loss or you need to explain to me where the melted ice is if not in the oceans. As I have already evaluated atmospheric water vapor, I already know the ice melt hasn't gone there. I been through all the sea level data and it has been decelerating not accelerating which is what should have happened if all that ice melt was real. So show me the sea level data that supports the AGU summary.
"Fig. 16 shows sea level change in the period of global satellite observations (Nerem et al., 2006). Sea level increased at an average rate 3.0 ± 0.4 mm/year during 1993-2010. In the six year period of the most accurate Argo data, 2005-2010, sea level increased 2.3 ± 0.5 mm/year. The slower recent rate of sea level rise may be due in part to the strong La Nina in 2010." - James Hansen May 2011 Hansen calls 2010 a La Nina year but the reality is that only the last half of 2010 was La Nina and it's silly to think that the multi-year trend for ARGO from 2005-2010, was only effected by 6 months worth of La Nina in 2010 and then totally overlook the full year effect of the 2009-2010 El Nino which was the strongest since 1998. So good luck finding sea level rise acceleration supporting the AGU's summary when even James Hansen can't.
Sundance May 20, 2011 at 03:43 pm
@PL - " I have traveled the rain forests of the world and have been diving in many coral reefs and have witnessed their destruction first-hand. To me, protecting them is just common sense"
Did you walk and swim to all these forests and reefs around the world (in order to protect the planet). Do you have wings or did you use fossil fueled transportation? Some planet lover you turned out to be. You have about as much credibility as a drunk preaching to me about the hazards of drinking. lol
Shripathi Kamath May 20, 2011 at 03:55 pm
@Sundance, do you, likewise, oppose people who consume alcohol speaking out against alcoholism and drunk-driving?
Shripathi Kamath May 20, 2011 at 04:02 pm
@Ned "Let's teach the kids how to think, not what to think."
Let's not be exclusive on that, I mean, I want them to think of the relative importance of the effects of global warming and mating habits of the tropical iguana. So, it is kinda important that we do teach them *what* to think about, as well. @Ned "Don't fill their heads with a bunch of scientific "facts" that will be inaccurate before they get out of college." OK, explain how you divine that a "bunch of scientific *facts*" will be inaccurate? Also explain, how is it that you think science works if you are to simply wait for *facts* to become accurate in the first place? Global warming has been studied for at least a couple of decades, and peer-reviewed science literature overwhelmingly shows observations trending the same way. How long do you suggest we wait until we expose this matter?
Planet lover May 20, 2011 at 04:31 pm
What I love is the name-calling (of sorts) that deniers resort to, as exemplified by Sundance. Yes, I did fly in an airplane that runs on fossil fuels, since there is no alternative at this point in time. I do it occasionally. However, I do more than most -- I volunteer for non-profit organizations that try to protect the environment; I carry reusable bags; I drive a hybrid; I take public transportation when I can; I carpool when I can; I recycle everything that is recyclable; I work in a job that supports climate science; I am careful about my water and energy use; I consume less than I used to.
As far as "preaching" goes, you need to learn the difference between a debate and delivering a sermon. Once again, you choose to hurl accusations and resort to name-calling in order to disguise real science.
Planet lover May 20, 2011 at 04:32 pm
Let me also add that I subscribe to green energy through my power company and purchase a TerraPass for my travel -- at least I make an effort.
Ned Brines May 20, 2011 at 05:04 pm
Something is occurring in in this exchange that reiterates the need to teach our kids how to think, not just be spoon fed information. The reference to statistics as a means of justifying an argument.
I have seen multiple references to "97% of scientists" agreeing that man-made global warming is a problem. While man-made global warming may very well be a problem, this statistic is both mis-leading and erroneous (as far as I can tell in the mere 5 min. it took me to find that data point). It appears that a 2006 University of Illinois survey of 3100 scientists across various disciplines included a question of whether man has had an impact on the observed increase in global temperatures over last century. One of the subsets, climatologists, answered affirmative to that question, 97% of them. Now that subset has grown to "all scientists" on these comment pages. I deal in a statistics based business (not science) where numbers and studies are constantly manipulated for headlines and wow factor. It is this type of hyperbole that should be minimized in education, which is why both sides of a developing topic need to be studied. Remember, roughly 90% of all people make up 75% of all statistics in 65% of all arguments.
met00 May 20, 2011 at 06:34 pm
Unfortunately Ned, the book "how To lie with statistics" is not required reading until you take college statistics.
But, notwithstanding the debate on the facts, the details of the studies are published, so you can see how those numbers were achieved. Remember that in any self selected group that participates in a voluntary polling what you generally see in the respondents are those that have deeper feelings on either side of the issue (not a statistic, just a fact). So, when you have a group of 10,000 and you voluntarily poll and get 1000 to participate, these will generally, through the process of self-selection, be those closest to the extremes of the center point. It is why there is a statistical probability curve (+/- a standard deviation) that allows a confidence level index to be associated to the outcome as to the established accuracy of the data. So, is the 97% one that can be stated with 100% confidence? No. But, after looking at how the data was gathered, one can say that there is a high confidence level that over 90% is VERY accurate, and over 95% is most likely accurate, and the 97 is somewhat accurate.
Sundance May 21, 2011 at 12:03 am
@SK Yes especially when they are hypocrites throwing their empty booze bottles at others who don't share their dogma.
Planet lover May 22, 2011 at 12:27 am
Typical denier name-calling. Since deniers don't have any scientific facts to back up their beliefs on climate change, they hurl names at people in order to attempt discredit them -- read "Merchants of Doubt". Sadly, this works on people like you. The existence of anthropogenic climate change has been and continues to be used in the service of political goals and commercial interests to obstruct the transmission to the American public of the real scientific information and to sow seeds of public doubt on matters of settled science. This has been done with tobacco, acid rain, the ozone hole (now there are two), and the Strategic Defense Initiative. Eventually, the misinformation campaign lost out to scientific fact. The same will happen with climate change.
So, sticks and stones, Sundance....
Sundance May 22, 2011 at 06:13 pm
Stunning logic PL. You use the term denier which is a Holocaust term that folks of your ilk use to label everybody that provides facts that counter your view of the situation. Where's your sea level rise data showing glacier melt has caused an acceleration? lol Even Hansen admits now that his model is wrong so he is sowing seeds of doubt far worse than mine. lol Yet you label me the denier. It is people like you who preach that deniers are evil fossil fuel using sinners but who are unable to recognize their own hypocrisy while jetting all over the world consuming fossil fuels. I'm not suggesting that you should be tried for treason for consuming fossil fuel like Robert Kennedy Jr. wanted, it's just that people are tired of hypocrites like you. You want to deny others the right to do what you have been doing by admitting to jetting to all these forests and reefs you claim to have seen first hand. To me that makes you the real denier. I say if the shoe fits..... lol
Sundance May 22, 2011 at 07:47 pm
I do all those things too. My carbon footprint is 5.6 tons/year. I assure you that when I can purchase solar panels for $1.00/watt I will install them because they would pay for themselves in ten years on a 25 year life expectancy for the panels. I just don't go around calling people deniers (other than to use irony to make a point) because they don't believe they are destroying the planet because they don't drive a hybrid. Do you actually realize how polluting the materials used in a hybrid technology really are? There are whole villages in China where people are dying from mining and processing the materials needed for green technology.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html Calling others deniers is truly ignorant especially since it was the German Green Party that helped alienate the Jews in Germany in much the same manner you are chosing to alianate those that disagree with you. The German Green party blamed the Jews for embracing industrialization and being against nature. There are several books available on the issue but here is an article to get you started on recognizing your fascist roots. ROTFLMAO http://www.aim.org/aim-report/hitlers-green-killing-machine/ And finally here is George Carlin showing the true nature of those who want to save the planet. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c
Planet lover May 23, 2011 at 12:32 am
You are a nut, plain and simple. You call me a fascist because I support what the strong scientific evidence that exists about the risks facing the world -- from ocean acidification (leading to the massive loss of phytoplankton) to sea level rise, to warming oceans, to shrinking ice sheets, to glacial retreat, and to the increase of extreme weather events. There are direct health impacts from heat waves and severe storms, ailments caused or exacerbated by air pollution and airborne allergens, and many climate-sensitive infectious diseases.
The fact is that I am not even trying to address policy; how to address climate change is for others to decide. I am merely supporting the prevailing and overwhelming science. I am not going to participate in a name-calling fest with you any longer. It is not worth my time and energy. You are the one who is ignorant.
Sundance May 23, 2011 at 05:19 pm
PL - It's my pleasure to educate you on your uncanny similarity of labeling me as a "denier" and the German Green Party fascists' labeling of Jews as haters and destroyers of Earth and nature.
Acidification will lead to release of carbonate which leads to a return to alkalinity, and increase CO2 absorption. How did ocean life manage 4000 ppm of CO2? "Leaving aside direct biological effects, it is expected that ocean acidification in the future will lead to a significant decrease in the burial of carbonate sediments for several centuries, and even the dissolution of existing carbonate sediments.[52] This will cause an elevation of ocean alkalinity, leading to the enhancement of the ocean as a reservoir for CO2 with moderate (and potentially beneficial) implications for climate change as more CO2 leaves the atmosphere for the ocean.[53]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification The NASA/GISS modeled radiative forcing in the oceans of .6wM2 is wrong. Based on the the physics of the Earth's radiation budget and the problem of model divergence a recalculation needs to be done and ARGO measurements of the radiative forcing in the oceans (considered the most accurate) gives us a value closer to .23wM2 including the accounting for the deep ocean heat. Sea level rise is decelerating so stop the lies. There are now multiple sourced data sets to confirm deceleration so start telling the scientific truth. I hope for our children's sake that you're not a teacher.
Planet lover May 30, 2011 at 05:01 pm
I don't know where in the world you get your information from, but it is certainly not credible.
Have a few scientific facts: http://www.ucar.edu/communications/Final_acidification.pdf http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=phytoplankton-population But then, you don't buy scientific facts, do you? When our ecosystem services completely fall apart, you will be one of the people to blame.
Oksanna July 16, 2011 at 12:50 pm
The arguments between Sundance and Planet Lover show that there is more to this greenhouse scare than meets the eye. Maybe Doctor Barke got it right after all. And since there has been no statistically significant warming for almost fifteen years, the time could be right to let the students research some of this stuff themselves, pro and con, instead of teaching it like a cult catechism.
James Schumaker July 16, 2011 at 01:22 pm
Oksanna, I'm not exactly sure how you conclude that there is no statistically significant warming for almost 15 years, since the facts point in the opposite direction. The National Academy of Sciences believes that global warming is real, a conclusion agreed to by 97 percent of the scientific community, and by almost all legitimate scientists who do not have some financial connection to oil and gas companies. To take a look at trends over the past century and predicted trends through the end of this century, go to the National Academy of Sciences site at: http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/ . You will see that the temperature trend is steadily upward in the 20th Century with an acceleration beginning in the 1970's, and projections for much worse temperature rises in this century. Fortunately, the United States has done relatively well compared to many parts of the world so far, but by 2030 our situation will be as bad as everyone else's. There are also several risk factors that could radically accelerate global warming even further. For example, if Siberia warms up enough for the permafrost to melt, significant quantities of methane would be released, enough to raise global temperatures by several more degrees.
jw4rocket July 16, 2011 at 01:51 pm
For those interested, check out this letter written to the Los Alamitos School Board. Alan I. Leshner, CEO and Executive Publisher of Science Magazine (under the American Association for the Advancement of Science), requests the Board remove the "controversial" title given to the AP Environmental class. Wake up School Board!
http://www.aaas.org/spp/cstc/docs/11-6-01_los_alamitos_usd_climate_science.pdf http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2011/0606alamitos_letter.shtml?sa_campaign=Internal_Ads/AAAS/RSS_News/2011-06-06/
Ned Brines July 16, 2011 at 02:09 pm
James
97% of scientists do NOT believe that global warming is occurring. The fact is that 97% of Climatologists (and only climatologists) answered affirmative to a single question in a survey agreeing that "man had an impact on global temperatures." Eliminating the other genres of scientists (geologists, astrophysicists, etc), many of whom disagreed, is a typical tool of both sides of this argument: selective use of data. Making a comment that the other scientists have a "financial connection" is misleading. The funding for the study of global warming has escalated by 9400% since 1990-with the majority of that going to climatologists who are studying the hypothesis that man is having an impact on global temperatures. Which way do you think that research will be biased? Given your comment that scientists only make their conclusions based upon funding, that answer seems obvious. Again, let's try and rise above the politics and try and focus on the facts. Everyone here has an opinion, which is great, but let's try and keep our discussion to the topic at hand-should we be teaching both sides of controversial subjects to our children or not? I say we should.
James Schumaker July 16, 2011 at 02:46 pm
As noted by Alan Lesher in his letter to the Los Alamitos School Board (see jw4rocket comment above), climate change is not a controversial topic. The issue is settled. I do take your point, however, that I should have said "climate scientists," and not "scientists."
Paul Liles July 17, 2011 at 12:01 pm
Amen! Ned, you are RIGHT ON! How refreshing!
dvardner August 4, 2011 at 11:46 am
Take a piece of meat out of the freezer. It will technically warm to room temperature. However, we did not heat it. Yes the earth has gone through cyclical lowering of temperature due to volcanic or asteroid interactions and the temperature has risen back to normal.These were not man made and resulted in many cases with great extinctions What we are calling global warming is the artificial rising of temperatures resulting in the loss of frozen fresh water sources and other climate affects. These temperatures are above normal. Thank god my son graduated Los Al before this crazy board. The teacher staff is much younger due to a lot of teacher retirement in the past few year. His teachers would never have stood up to this board. Visions of the board in Vista who wanted both sides of evolution. State science standards supports global warming.
Oksanna August 22, 2011 at 12:58 pm
James:
The Koshland Museum link uses NASA and Hadley data, but conveniently cuts off at year 2000; even so, some of the recent decline since 1996 can be seen: http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/historical06.jsp I note they also use the poster-child of catastrophic warming in their online exhibition, Micheal Mann's discredited hockey-stick: http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/historical03.jsp http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/McKitrick-hockeystick.pdf Last year, we could say there had been no significant warming for fifteen years 1995-2009. That is according to University of East Anglia Hadley Centre's Phil Jones. Since late 2010 he changed that to significant - a claim that the climate science moderates, the so-called "lukewarmers", question: http://rankexploits.com/musings/2011/statistical-significance-since-1995-not-with-hadcrut/ Regardless, in mid-2011, it looks like any significance won't hold. The "lack of warming" (to quote Kevin Trenberth) failed to realize the IPCC's climate model predictions. Shouldn't we be celebrating?
Oksanna August 22, 2011 at 01:33 pm
It is interesting to note that physicist and science philosopher Paul Feyerabend
argued for a separation of science and State, and for parents "being able to determine the ideological context of their children's education, instead of having limited options because of scientific standards". In a nutshell, his two points are that all science (and this would include catastrophic anthropogenic global warming theory) is inherently ideological and contestible, and that parents deserve more say. And that is the beauty of the U.S. system of local school boards which other Western countries such as the UK and Australia lack, and also the context in which I read Doctor Barke's approach.
James Schumaker August 22, 2011 at 02:35 pm
Oksanna, unfortunately, the data do not bear out your argument. Both NOAA and the World Meteorological Organization have concluded that 2000-2009 was warmer than 1990-1999. (http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2009/12/08/205106/world-meteorological-organization-wmo-2000s-warmest-hottest-decade-on-record/ ). As I noted, North America has been fortunate in this decade compared to the rest of the world, but that trend will not last.
Oksanna August 23, 2011 at 04:16 am
James, yes, Hansen's NOAA dataset shows higher temperatures than HadCrut's. About his claim of lack of significant warming, I think Dr. Jones says it best:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511670.stm You are quite correct about the 2000s being the warmest decade, and Jones may be right about a lack of warming from 1995 to 2009 if not later. They are mutually compatible statements as described here by Dr. Don Easterbrook: http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4646 Along with a few really hot summers, some cold spells were also recorded in the US over the past decade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_wave#Modern_cold_waves_.282001-date.29 But according to alarmist doctrine, any weather phenomenon, hot, cold, calm or stormy can be construed as "climate change" or "extreme weather" and thus bolster the waning scare.
Sundance September 10, 2011 at 10:25 pm
Don't forget to teach the children that H2O + clouds are responsible for 90% of the warming in the Earths atmosphere. Also be sure to update the children that H2O in the Stratosphere is considered a forcing in the Earth's radiation budget and that CO2 based climate models overestimate future warming now that Susan Solomon has published her evidence of aerosol variation.
Also update them on the CERN experiment which demonstrates a direct relationship between galactic cosmic rays and and nucleation needed for cloud formation. If continuing research at CERN shows that nucleation of droplets at 100nm can be formed bt GCRs then clouds would have to be changed from a feedback to a forcing in the arth's energy budget. Further strength of GCRs influence on Earth's radiation budget is occurring in Europe as evidence of dineural temperature variation associated with GCRs has just been published. While such evidence existed for measurement over oceans this is the first evidence of occurrence over any continent. You can teach children that CO2 is a forcing for Earth's energy budget, and you can teach them that in a lab under controlled environment, a doubling of CO2 leads to about 1 degC of warming, but you still can't tell them how much warming will occur from a doubling of CO2 in the open system of Earth's atmosphere because we are still uncertain about feedback from clouds and aerosols. Alot has already changed since last May when this article was written.
met00 October 23, 2011 at 05:56 am
"Climate change deniers thought they had an ally in Richard Muller, a popular physics professor at UC Berkeley.
Muller didn’t reject climate science per se, but he was a skeptic, and a convenient one for big polluters and conservative anti-environmentalists — until Muller put their money where his mouth was, and launched the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project, in part with a grant from the Charles G. Koch foundation." http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/climate-change-deniers-abandon-befuddled-warmist-physicist-who-came-around-on-global-warming.php?ref=fpa Another one bites the dust.
Sundance October 25, 2011 at 05:04 pm
Another one of what bites the dust? I'm not following you. Did you plot Muller's unadjusted data without smoothing? Did you examine his statistical methodology? Do you know what model he used and what the accuracy of that model has been over time and if anyone else is still using that model?
In the context of what schools should teach, it should be to teach children to examine the evidence for themselves without a political filter. Recently a private school in Atlanta approached the climate topic by introducing differing views of climate science to its students and then promoting open discussion followed by individual review. These children learned how to listen to arguments, apply critical thinking to assess those arguments and then draw their own conclusions. Of more interest than Muller is taht the solar industry has announced shocking news this week that they will soon offer an option for clean energy at a competitive price, without the need for cap and trade, carbon taxes, government subsidies, feed-in tarriffs,etc. It is a capitalistic solution which allows people to install solar collectors with a 3 to 5 year payback on their investment. This would mean that homeowners would then be paying themselves to generate power, instead of some utility company, for 20 years after they recoup investment costs. Even deniers will want solar on their roofs if it means they would pay $1,000.00/year less in utility bills. :-)

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Are you kidding? Every heard of Freedom of speech? There should be more like him. This country isRead More going to hell in a handbag quite fast. We are ruining this country for our children and leaving the biggest mess ever... Kudos to Snowden..... You gave up everything to be honest and tell it like it is!!!
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This man has a rare quality, courage. Unlike the fool in office and his minions. If you thinkRead More the Constitution is a joke, you see him as bad. If you want to be spied on by your own government, Snowden is bad. Courage is missing in the states. The military have it but not the majority of our mediocre citizens.